tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post897307303148340111..comments2024-03-16T21:32:23.088-04:00Comments on A Sure Word: Psalm 58:8: Snails Don't Literally Melt but Some Critics are Literally StupidRKBentleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00566375018731000081noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-63148983827771384762018-01-09T07:10:17.102-05:002018-01-09T07:10:17.102-05:00Diane,
Thanks for your comments. If you haven...Diane,<br /><br />Thanks for your comments. If you haven't noticed already, Steven J is one of the more intelligent and articulate critics that visits my blog. Even so, he often repeats some of the same criticisms over and over. Either he isn't satisfied with my responses to them or he pretends I haven't addressed them.<br /><br />I often refer to the original meanings of biblical words when studying the Bible. It has been my experience that some difficult to understand passages are caused by difficult to translate words. Languages are more than vocabularies – they are filled with idioms that aren't immediately grasped by non-native speakers. I appreciate you pointing out the Hebrew meaning here.<br /><br />Thank you for visiting. God bless!!<br /><br />RKBentleyRKBentleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00566375018731000081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-25902529457414385182018-01-04T16:48:23.860-05:002018-01-04T16:48:23.860-05:00Steven wrote:
"I've noticed that many t...Steven wrote: <br /><br />"I've noticed that many translations render "melt" as "leave a trail of slime;" the same word is being used for the actions of snails and ice because both leave a liquid trail behind them. It's less figurative language than a different way of linguistically carving up the world: lumping together the actions of a snail and a melting chunk of ice because both leave behind a trail of liquid as they move (most languages have words that lump together meanings that, to speakers of some other language, seem utterly bizarre)."<br /><br />He is correct about the rationale behind the psalmist's choice of simile and about different languages lumping together different meanings. The reason it sounds bizarre in English is because there is no relationship between the English name of the creature and the way it moves. But the Hebrew word for snail is derived from a root word meaning "to flow", so to the Hebrew audience, the simile would have created a very graphic mental image of both the silvery trail of slime behind a snail and trail of water produced by melting ice or snow. Diannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06851182908313725008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-6371591022091470512012-06-18T09:53:55.172-04:002012-06-18T09:53:55.172-04:00Steven J,
I think you're splitting hairs. It...Steven J,<br /><br />I think you're splitting hairs. It's not at all unusual to make figurative use of things that do not exist. I could say, for example, “sin is a three headed monster that destroys body, mind, and spirit.” Of course, there are no three headed monsters that I'm aware of.<br /><br />In discussions about Biblical veracity, there are other passages that could be described as contentious. Psalm 58:8 isn't among them. People who cannot identify Psalm 58:8 as a poetic expression are either grossly ignorant or lying (as I discussed in the post). When people make that criticism of the Bible, it's difficult to take them seriously when they raise what could be a more substantive criticisms. <br /><br />Your reference to Biblical passages about the earth not moving, for example, is a little less obvious as an expression. I think I'll write a little post about it, by the way, but for now, let me say that points raised like this warrant discussion. However, when a critic raises silly points, like claiming Isaiah 55:12 is saying trees have hands, it only demonstrates that his objections are not sincere.<br /><br />Thanks for your comment. God bless!!<br /><br />RKBentleyRKBentleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00566375018731000081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-55802771155177728012012-06-17T16:40:22.175-04:002012-06-17T16:40:22.175-04:00A couple of not-quite-disagreements:
I think, her...A couple of not-quite-disagreements:<br /><br />I think, here, the problem is that a simile or metaphor implies that you are comparing something to something that <i>literally</i> exists. A blessed man is not literally a tree, but literal trees exist. The "path" of sinners is not a literal road, but literal roads have to exist for the metaphor to occur to the writer or be understood by the reader. "Snails melting" is not where one would expect to find a figure of speech here.<br /><br />On the other hand, I've noticed that many translations render "melt" as "leave a trail of slime;" the same word is being used for the actions of snails and ice because both leave a liquid trail behind them. It's less figurative language than a different way of linguistically carving up the world: lumping together the actions of a snail and a melting chunk of ice because both leave behind a trail of liquid as they move (most languages have words that lump together meanings that, to speakers of some other language, seem utterly bizarre).<br /><br />Of course, we could argue at vast length as to when various biblical statements are meant literally or figuratively. Gerardus Bouw, for example, is a six-day creationist Christian who agrees with quite a few atheists than when the Bible speaks of the Earth being unmoved and the sun moving around it, it speaks literally ("if we don't believe what the Bible says about the rising of the sun, how can we believe what it says about the rising of the Son?"). To me, references to the "windows of the sky" in Genesis and Malachi make perfect, literal sense, given the cosmology of other middle eastern cultures of the time (or even the extrabiblical writings of Jews from the first centuries BC and AD). But even Bouw will not go that far.Steven J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15638850493907393069noreply@blogger.com