tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post2383153888514716829..comments2024-03-16T21:32:23.088-04:00Comments on A Sure Word: Marco Polo Describes a DinosaurRKBentleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00566375018731000081noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-71112960211569907872023-02-23T16:01:16.706-05:002023-02-23T16:01:16.706-05:00Steven J I miss your erroneous views when you used...Steven J I miss your erroneous views when you used to publish them on Atheist Central. I doubt you have learned over time but I would still enjoy reading them now in 2013. Are you still with us or have you passed on to discover too late the reality you have stubbornly denied? I think about you occasionally and hope you are still with us. (John1)<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-81426111030960831282023-02-23T15:15:05.135-05:002023-02-23T15:15:05.135-05:00If the dinosaurs were hitched for pulling, then th...If the dinosaurs were hitched for pulling, then they would most likely have to lean forward to compensate for the weight they were hauling. Just a thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-7808212353548124952021-08-15T15:40:47.791-04:002021-08-15T15:40:47.791-04:00The jaws were wide enough to swallow a man, then h...The jaws were wide enough to swallow a man, then he describes the teeth after the fact. It is clear that he is describing a dinosaur. They have found things not even 100 years old that are fossilized, so it doesn’t take millions of years. People need to wake up and quit listening to scientific nonsense. Watch Forbidden Knowledge. What about the Chinese Zodiac? Can you actually think that every animal in the zodiac is real except the dragon? Sorry but there is too much other proof of dinosaurs and dragons. They did not put together dinosaur bones back then to know exactly what they looked like. A lot of structures showed some of the dinosaurs that were just put together not too long ago.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-58097671403891998332021-01-27T16:22:04.367-05:002021-01-27T16:22:04.367-05:00Secondly, the original writing of mr. Polo have be...Secondly, the original writing of mr. Polo have been lost and it is a little known fact that people quite literally spoke differently back then and that if he were to speak to us today, we would have a hard time understanding him the same way we would not understand someone who was speaking old English. To sum up, slot of what he said some time ago was translated to old English and we do not understand it today, but rather it was a clear translation from Italian to old English we are still uncertain.<br />So who knows what he saw and we may never know.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16420345600625519462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-53768476587120854192021-01-27T16:18:22.251-05:002021-01-27T16:18:22.251-05:00In general for these comments I would like to poin...In general for these comments I would like to point out that "scientists" claim that humans and dinosaurs never interacted, and that these creatures died out several millions of years ago.<br />However, we do know that red blood cells and tissue samples have been found present with some dinosaur "remains" (because the word/term fossil doesnt really apply) and that these red blood cells and tissue can not last for more than a million years.<br />So, the "evidence" is proof that dinosaurs have been around within at least the last million years, not to mention the countless amount of stories and evidence from EVERY culture and tribe and people around the world who clearly referred to these creatures as dragons.<br />If ANYONE can not admit this as fact, then to be quite blunt "they are in fact lying" period.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16420345600625519462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-53425084436806161992019-02-27T02:07:34.880-05:002019-02-27T02:07:34.880-05:00May be the Dinosaur that Marcopolo saw was wounded...May be the Dinosaur that Marcopolo saw was wounded by the poles with sharp fittings that those employed to hunt the Dinosaurs used. A wounded Dinosaur may have to walk by belly dragging. In Hindu Puranas there is mention about Dinosaurs. The word used is lizards as huge as a hill. https://www.booksfact.com/puranas/dinosaurs-mentioned-in-bhagavata-purana.html Dinosaurs mentioned in Bhagavata Purana :"Dinosaur was mentioned to have been witnessed by yadava boys during Krishna’s regime in dwaraka around 3100 BCE.<br />Bhagavatam, written by sage veda vyas describes about a huge hill sized lizard (chameleon) in canto 10, chapter 64."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-61775412236344581832017-04-05T15:30:51.514-04:002017-04-05T15:30:51.514-04:00As a note: when I read the passage I imagine a gia...As a note: when I read the passage I imagine a giant dinosaur walking and dragging its feet in the sand. I imagine with their massive weight they sink into what I am imagining is wet sand along the shore. With one foot deeper than normal in the sand, the other foot drags and leaves a trail. The context of this track is only mentioned 'along the sands'.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-8813718643836006672016-09-23T07:52:22.808-04:002016-09-23T07:52:22.808-04:00Brett,
Thanks for visiting. I think that is the ...Brett,<br /><br />Thanks for visiting. I think that is the same article I wrote about on my blog here:<br /><br />http://www.nature.com/news/bird-wings-trapped-in-amber-are-a-fossil-first-from-the-age-of-dinosaurs-1.20162<br /><br />It's funny that they are called, "dinosaur feathers" yet the article admits they can't tell if they belonged to dinosaurs! Worse, the article also said some feathers are indistinguishable from modern bird feathers. I think such a find shows that birds lived at the same time as their supposed ancestor.<br /><br />Thanks for your comments. Please keep visiting.<br /><br />God bless!!<br /><br />RKBentleyRKBentleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00566375018731000081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-78263578138063598372016-09-22T18:50:37.309-04:002016-09-22T18:50:37.309-04:00And now this wing is suppose to be 99 million year...<br />And now this wing is suppose to be 99 million years old??<br /><br />http://www.nature.com/news/bird-wings-trapped-in-amber-are-a-fossil-first-from-the-age-of-dinosaurs-1.20162<br /><br />Ummm something's amissAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17187844073921641752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-18991646402009570222015-12-28T12:31:05.786-05:002015-12-28T12:31:05.786-05:00Tig1,
You said, “Another latecomer.”
No worries....Tig1,<br /><br />You said, “Another latecomer.”<br /><br />No worries. Comments are always welcome no matter how old the post.<br /><br />You said, “I'm surprised no one mentioned this yet. A little later in the writings it says" 1 The natives of India are particularly ingenious in their contrivances for destroying beasts of prey, particularly the tiger, which is sometimes made to fall upon sharp-pointed stakes, after walking up an inclined plane; but the alligator is most commonly taken in the water, with a large hook." Wouldn't this prove that Marco Polo knew exactly what an alligator was, and looked like? Also the means by which they were captured was completely different.”<br /><br />I think you're absolutely right. It's rather laughable to think Marco Polo didn't know what alligators or crocodiles looked like and the fact that he mentions them in other passages confirms this. That he further says the “serpents” were hunted by placing spike in the ground and alligators are captured using a hook in the water further cinches that these are different animals. Great call!<br /><br />In summary, the “serpent”...<br /><br />had 3 claws<br />had shorter front legs<br />lived in caves during the day<br />went to the water to drink<br />was hunted by placing spikes in the ground<br /><br />Alligators, on the other hand...<br /><br />have 5 claws<br />have front legs about the same length as its back legs<br />live primarily in the water<br />are hunted in the water with hooks<br /><br />It's not even close. I'm not saying he MUST be describing a dinosaur but I know he's not describing an alligator. The only reason that possibility is raised is because evolutionists dismiss the possibility that it could have been a dinosaur. <br /><br />Thanks for visiting and for your comments. Please keep coming back.<br /><br />God bless!!<br /><br />RKBentleyRKBentleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00566375018731000081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-885122118693576232015-12-27T22:34:40.731-05:002015-12-27T22:34:40.731-05:00Another latecomer. I'm surprised no one mentio...Another latecomer. I'm surprised no one mentioned this yet. A little later in the writings it says" 1 The natives of India are particularly ingenious in their contrivances for destroying beasts of prey, particularly the tiger, which is sometimes made to fall upon sharp-pointed stakes, after walking up an inclined <br />plane; but the alligator is most commonly taken in the water, with a <br />large hook."<br /> Wouldn't this prove that Marco Polo knew exactly what an alligator was, and looked like? Also the means by which they were captured was completely different.<br /> Also here it says," 2 The flesh of the guana or inguana, an animal intermediate in size between the lizard and the alligator, I have known to be eaten both by <br />Chinese and Europeans, and by the former at least to be considered as <br />a delicacy." He compares the "lizard" to iguanas and alligators so it's clearly a different creature.<br />And lastly to comment on this," In the day-time, by <br />reason of the great heat, they lurk in caverns, from whence, <br />at night, they issue to seek their food, and whatever beast they <br />meet with and can lay hold of, whether tiger, wolf, or any other, <br />they devour; after which they drag themselves towards some <br />lake, spring of water, or river, in order to drink. By their <br />motion in this way along the shore, and their vast weight, they <br />make a deep impression, as if a heavy beam had been drawn <br />along the sands." It,to me, seems to be describing that after it eats it walks in a different manner. Which is what a lot of reptiles do after eating a lot of food. Perhaps this creature carries itself much closer to the ground when full, also making itself very vulnerable to attacks. I think people have let movies give them a false image of how these creatures actually were.Tig1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-22819263257609661012014-07-30T23:23:54.886-04:002014-07-30T23:23:54.886-04:00“Those whose employment it is to hunt them observe...“Those whose employment it is to hunt them observe the track by which they are most frequently accustomed to go, and fix into the ground several pieces of wood, armed with sharp iron spikes, which they cover with the sand in such a manner as not to be perceptible. When therefore the animals make their way towards the places they usually haunt, they are wounded by these instruments, and speedily killed. The crows, as soon as they perceive them to be dead, set up their scream; and this serves as a signal to the hunters, who advance to the spot, and proceed to separate the skin from the flesh, taking care immediately to secure the gall, which is most highly esteemed in medicine. In cases of the bite of a mad dog, a pennyweight of it, dissolved in wine, is administered. It is also useful in accelerating parturition, when the labour pains of women have come on. A small quantity of it being applied to carbuncles, pustules, or other eruptions on the body, they are presently dispersed; and it is efficacious in many other complaints. The flesh also of the animal is sold at a dear rate, being thought to have a higher flavor<br /> than other kinds of meat, and by all persons it is esteemed a delicacy.”<br />(Travels of Marco Polo the Venetian, translated by W. Marsden, edited by Thomas Wright, pp 91-92)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-71923848855800209622013-04-22T11:09:35.719-04:002013-04-22T11:09:35.719-04:00Michael B,
Thanks for your comments. Even though...Michael B,<br /><br />Thanks for your comments. Even though this post is over a year old, it's still being read. You may have noticed it's one of my top ten this week. Don't worry that you're commenting "too late."<br /><br />You're right that the order of the fossil record merely represents "where" the creatures were buried rather than "when". I've sometimes used the analogy of ice cubes in a glass. The cubes on the bottom may have been laid down first but they're not necessarily older.<br /><br />Thanks too for your encouragement. Please keep visiting and commenting!!<br /><br />God bless!!<br /><br />RKBentleyRKBentleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00566375018731000081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-61928772701003046882013-04-22T02:48:40.452-04:002013-04-22T02:48:40.452-04:00I'm a little late to the party, but I would li...I'm a little late to the party, but I would like to draw attention to a comment Steven made in (form what I can tell is) his first post.<br /><br />Steven said, "it's just that fossils of non-bird dinosaurs aren't found in sediments dated as younger than 65 million years; they lasted 150 million years before the K-T boundary."<br /><br />I just wanted to point out that because of the nature of sediment, that it is a composite, it cannot be simply “dated” as the post would suggest. Sediment cannot be radio dated; it is dated by what we find in it. To an evolutionist who believes an artifact (such as a fossil, which I remind also cannot be radio dated) which he believes is 65million yrs old, this would lead him to believe the sediment is 65million yrs old as well. This would make sense (and does to many), except that the original date for the (un-radio-datable) fossil was derived from the (un-radio-datable) sediment.<br /><br />Also, suppose the Genesis account is accurate. Suppose the Flood eradicated all life on the surface of the planet. Genesis 7:11 says, “on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth.” If the springs of the deep burst forth, personally I’d imagine there to be a significant amount of sediment to be kicked up and burry/drown all living things. What kinds of creatures do you suppose to be buried first? Invertebrates and creatures already living in the sediment would be my guess. Of the vertebrates whose first to go? Warm-blooded mammals that can swim, or large, cold blooded reptiles that can’t? All these creatures (that can’t swim well or at all) get buried in sediment, in prime conditions for fossilization. I’m just sayin’, it sounds like a far more reasonable conclusion, for what we observe, that the scenario described in the Bible (and by many other cultures) are based more in logic and evidence than the evolutionist who dates his mud by the contents and the contents by the mud it’s found in.<br /><br />I would also like to give mad props to RK, thanks and God bless!Michael B.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-6373144060103453892012-12-07T08:38:43.333-05:002012-12-07T08:38:43.333-05:00Unknown,
Thanks for visiting and for your comment...Unknown,<br /><br />Thanks for visiting and for your comments. I'm not sure if you meant to leave two comments; sometimes, people are confused by the moderation feature I use and think their 1st comment is lost so they try to write another. I usually only publish one comment when this happens but your comments weren't quite identical and I'm not sure which best made your point so I published them both.<br /><br />I do try to be civil when I write and stick to the points. Anybody can write insults and they're never interesting. <br /><br />Steven J is one of the more rational atheists/evolutionists that I've encountered. The fact that he is able to carry on an intelligent conversation is why he's been posting here so long. Many other people in his camp resort to insults and logical fallacies after the second or third exchange.<br /><br />BTW, I would say you did add something intellectual to the conversation. Please keep visiting and commenting.<br /><br />God bless!!<br /><br />RKBentleyRKBentleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00566375018731000081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-19224439226601033122012-12-06T22:31:47.269-05:002012-12-06T22:31:47.269-05:00Hey guys, I wanted to thank you for your conduct t...Hey guys, I wanted to thank you for your conduct throughout this conversation. I think both of you defended your arguments well and allowed yourselves to see the view of your opponent. This was maturely handled, which is a rare occurrence on this hate infested, emotionally charged medium of the Internet. Thank you, this was truly refreshing and gave me plenty of information to research.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03759814146727026389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-13333016542290846322012-12-06T22:27:39.110-05:002012-12-06T22:27:39.110-05:00Hey guys, I have nothing to add intelectually to t...Hey guys, I have nothing to add intelectually to this argument, but I did want to thank you for your approach to this conversation. It was factually based and well defended. I think both of you effectively defended your beliefs and allowed yourselves to acknowledge and validate what your opponent put forth. I have learned a lot and have plenty of research to conduct thanks to you. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03759814146727026389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-72770664669579133972012-09-30T21:19:08.301-04:002012-09-30T21:19:08.301-04:00Thanks for your comments.
I agree that the word...Thanks for your comments. <br /><br />I agree that the wording very strongly implies that the creature Polo described had 4 legs with the fore limbs being diminutive. <br /><br />Another interesting characteristic about this mysterious reptile is that the fore limbs had “three claws.” In spite of Steven J's attempt to portray this creature as an elaboration of some mundane lizard, he glosses over that sticky detail. Every lizard that I've seen, as well as crocs/alligators, have 5 claws.<br /><br />Thanks again for your comments. Please keep visiting.<br /><br />God bless!!<br /><br />RKBentleyRKBentleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00566375018731000081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-32105641269591859612012-09-29T11:38:32.664-04:002012-09-29T11:38:32.664-04:00Regarding Steven's argument....two front legs ...Regarding Steven's argument....two front legs meaning no back legs.....I would like to explain this in a different way....If you were driving a vehicle..such as an automobile with four tires....and the front tires went flat, you would say, "My front tires are flat." However, if there were such a vehicle with only two front tires and they should become flat, you would not say "my front tires are flat" as those are the only tires on the vehicle. Therefore, by Marco Polo specifically saying "front" legs and not just "legs" would make one beleive that this creature had back legs also.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-83248107866843911022012-03-13T03:45:04.021-04:002012-03-13T03:45:04.021-04:00I realize that you believe that the created "...I realize that you believe that the created "kinds" of Genesis were not necessarily "species" as taxonomists have understood the term since the 17th century. For example, the original created felid population might have given rise to the modern lion and tiger species, perhaps even to the modern lynx and house cat species. But two points remain: those original "kinds" must have started as "species" (a lion is <i>not</i> a tiger, a horse is <i>not</i> a zebra), and every species that has arisen from "evolution within kinds" must have arisen since the creation of humans, if young-earth creationism is true. Hence, all known living and fossil species have existed within the time human beings have been on Earth. I did not mean to attribute to you a belief that all species now on Earth were specially created.<br /><br />I note that while the text does not explicitly say that the described animal crawled on its belly, it equally does not explicitly say that it walked on two legs. It says <i>nothing</i> of hind legs. It does say (at least in English translation; I do not know what the underlying Italian is) that they "dragged" themselves from their caves to water, which certainly sounds like a sprawling gait to me.<br /><br />I should note in passing that some modern lizard species have front legs shorter than hind legs (some, indeed, have lost their front limbs entirely). It is not purely a dinosaurian trait.<br /><br />It is not "selective skepticism" to doubt accounts that cannot be corroborated by independent evidence and contradict such independent evidence as exists: elephants demonstrably exist, and besides clear illustrations of them, there are observations of living and fossil elephants. There is nothing that very closely resembles Marco Polo's giant reptile known from recent animal remains or observations of living species. And there are traveler's tales of all sorts of things, from dog-headed men to plants that bear sheep as fruit, to suggest that descriptions of living species in such tails can end up very garbled.Steven J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15638850493907393069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-83037191047797291402012-03-12T19:24:19.836-04:002012-03-12T19:24:19.836-04:00Steven J,
I'm not sure where to begin. I hav...Steven J,<br /><br />I'm not sure where to begin. I have never said that Polo's descriptions of something that resembled a dinosaur is grounds for believing all species were contemporary with humans. That's about a bad a summary as I could imagine. <br /><br />I believe that all KINDS of animals were contemporary with humans because of the account given in the BIBLE. Descriptions of animals that resemble dinosaurs are consistent with my belief. They are less consistent with evolution, which posits that dinosaurs became extinct millions of years before modern man appeared.<br /><br />The Polo text is a very poor description of a crocodile so I wonder why the editor of the text even suggested it was an alligator or crocodile? However, it is a good description of a bipedal dinosaur: 25-30 feet long, 7 feet thick, diminutive front legs, three toes, sharp claws, and jaws large enough to swallow a man. Furthermore, these creatures were terrestrial – they lived in caverns during the heat of the day and went to the water to drink.<br /><br />I can understand how one might interpret the text to say the creature drags its belly but the word “belly” is not mentioned in the text. Tracks are worn where the creatures “frequent” - that is, they walk the same path regularly. These paths are where the spikes were placed. Crocodiles may leave tracks in the sand where they drag their bellies but not necessarily because they “frequent” the path. The text does not say the iron spike pierced their bellies; it only says the beasts were injured by them. Wooden spikes were used in Asia against US troops in a similar fashion so belly dragging is not necessary for the spikes to be effective.<br /><br />Yet having said all that, I admit that this account isn't NECESSARILY a dinosaur. Creation doesn't require this animal to be a dinosaur; it only leaves open the possibility that it is. Perhaps it truly is a heretofore unknown lizard. Either way, the evidence is still consistent with creation and we're free to draw our own conclusion. Evolution, on the other hand, virtually demands that this not be a dinosaur. You disqualify that possibility because of your theory. You are, in a sense, forcing your theory onto the evidence rather than going where the evidence might lead. <br /><br />Evos are very selective in their skepticism. Where is the criticism of Polo's other writings? If Polo described an elephant, would anyone be skeptical and insist it was merely a poor description of a cow? Would anyone challenge the text and wonder if he really saw the elephant? I suspect it's precisely because this is such a a good description of a dinosaur that questions about it's veracity are even being raised. In a paradoxical sense, the more argument I hear that it's not a dinosaur, the more I'm convinced that it could be a dinosaur!<br /><br />Thanks for your comments. God bless!!<br /><br />RKBentleyRKBentleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00566375018731000081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-39723851939714745562012-03-12T12:29:16.917-04:002012-03-12T12:29:16.917-04:00Your original post argued that all known fossil sp...Your original post argued that all known fossil species were contemporary with early humans on the grounds that Marco Polo saw, in China, something that from his description sounded like a dinosaur. It rather matters how broadly you define "dinosaur." A hitherto-unknown giant species of lizard in China would give us no reason to suspect that non-bird dinosaurs survived the K-T boundary event 65 million years ago, even if the giant lizard's front legs were shorter than its hind legs.<br /><br />Again, the description from Polo certainly seems to be describing something with a sprawling, non-erect gait: the description of how the Chinese kill it (with sharpened stakes or spears set in the ground so that it is wounded as it drags its belly over them) implies that its belly stays a lot closer to the ground than would be the case for, e.g. a tiger -- or any known dinosaur.Steven J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15638850493907393069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-5277915230737931002012-03-12T09:05:59.951-04:002012-03-12T09:05:59.951-04:00I'm aware that the Dimetrodon was not a dinosa...I'm aware that the Dimetrodon was not a dinosaur, thus I said that it is commonly called a dinosaur – and it is. Just do a Google image search on “sail back dinosaur” and you will see pictures of Dimetrodon and captions calling it a dinosaur. <br /><br />It's really a trivial point in our discussion anyway since I don't believe Polo was describing a Dimetrodon. I bring it up only because laypeople might not use the correct, modern technical term to describe what could be a dinosaur. One term used by ancient writers is “dragon.” Polo described these beasts as “huge serpents.” Actually, I suppose“huge serpents” is the translator's term. The use of the word “serpent” suggests the beasts had some reptilian features – maybe they were hairless and had scaly hides. It certainly wasn't a snake since the creature had legs. <br /><br />Neither do I believe Polo was describing a crocodile. I again appeal to mention of shorter front legs and remind you that this creature had 3 toes. Steven J said that Polo might not be familiar with crocodiles because they aren't common in Asia. Of course, Polo did travel to places where crocodiles are more common (like Africa). Besides, if crocs are scarce in China, why would skeptics immediately assume he's describing a croc?RKBentleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00566375018731000081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-59524466862215395252012-03-11T14:11:54.258-04:002012-03-11T14:11:54.258-04:00RK:
"The Dimetrodon had a sprawling gait mor...RK:<br /><br />"The Dimetrodon had a sprawling gait more akin to reptiles yet it is commonly called a “dinosaur.” A very large monitor lizard or crocodile might also have been called a dinosaur if it were only found and the fossil record and not still alive today."<br /><br />Dimetrodon was a synapsid, not a diapsid; it is not called a dinosaur by any palaeontologist. They are far more closely related to mammals than dinosaurs. Crocodiles would be recognised as a separate clade to dinosaurs, though they are archosaurs.The Palaeobabblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04287371449302573605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6030110973061875792.post-89821966803049323072012-03-10T14:47:55.410-05:002012-03-10T14:47:55.410-05:00When I say that lizards or crocodilians are, as gr...When I say that lizards or crocodilians are, as groups, as old as dinosaurs, I don't mean that current species of these groups are as old as dinosaurs: we don't find, e.g. fossils of <i>Alligator mississipiensis</i> alongside dinosaur or ichthyosaur fossils (the crocodilians of the Mesozoic belonged to different species, genera, and families). We find fossil mammals all through the Cretaceous, but they are not modern species or genera. <br /><br />You will note that there are "old-earth creationists" that accept that, e.g. the non-bird dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago but deny, e.g. that birds evolved from non-bird dinosaurs or that humans have monkey ancestors. <br /><br />I suppose many laymen consider <i>Dimetrodon</i> a dinosaur. Even Carl Sagan, annoyingly, so labeled it in one of his books. But any competent book on dinosaurs will tell you it is not (indeed, evolutionists will tell you that <i>Dimetrodon</i> is more closely related to you and your dog than it is to <i>T. rex</i> or <i>Triceratops</i>: it is a "mammal-like reptile" or synapsid).<br /><br />As I noted, there are lizards known from the Mesozoic; they are quite distinct from dinosaurs, lacking, e.g. the antorbital fenestra in the skull (that distinguishes archosaurs from other diapsid reptiles) and the erect gait that distinguishes dinosaurs from other archosaurs.<br /><br />It's not really clear whether Polo ever laid eyes on this creature -- or how familiar he was with crocodilians (they're not terribly common in Europe or most of central Asia, after all).Steven J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15638850493907393069noreply@blogger.com